Received: from hplms26.hpl.hp.com by opus.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1) id AA01002; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 01:34:20 -0700 Return-Path: <westes@usc.com-DeleteThis> Received: from uucp9.netcom.com by hplms26.hpl.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.4/15.5+ECS 3.3+HPL1.1S) id AA21663; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 01:35:35 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.4/SMI-4.1) id BAA24432; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 01:32:54 -0700 Received: by usc.com (NX5.67d/NX3.0M) id AA01507; Thu, 28 Apr 94 01:23:54 -0700 From: Will Estes <westes@usc.com-DeleteThis> Message-Id: <9404280823.AA01507@usc.com-DeleteThis> Subject: Re: Need a measuring site for Coyote and Third Avenue To: wind_talk@opus.hpl.hp.com-DeleteThis Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 01:23:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9404280704.AA22676@zonker.hpl.hp.com-DeleteThis> from "Ken Poulton" at Apr 28, 94 00:05:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4451
'Ken Poulton says:'
>
> > I think it depends a lot on elevation as well, though. I mentioned the
> > possibility of putting the gauge on top of Embassy Suites, and they seemed
> > to think that the wind would be 10 knots higher up there (which may be
> > okay, by the way, if the wind in the channel is also 10 knots higher than
> > the lower elevation beach reading).
>
> The wind may average a little higher at a higher elevation, but this
> doesn't mean it will correlate any better with the wind beyond the wind
> line.
But notice that the first wind line at Coyote is usually right at the
last swimming poles, and this corresponds exactly to the land at the
windward part of the cove. If you have an instrument above the height of
that land, you should get a reading that at least comes close to the wind
at the first swimming poles. That reading would certainly be better than
anything you would get from the beach.
Yes, I understand that there is yet another windline associated with the
major air flow through the San Bruno gap. I'm just talking about finding a
good spot if you had to settle for something near land and couldn't get a
channel reading.
> > In theory they could put a small tower
> > on top of the ASD building roof that would give them enough elevation to
> > overcome the wind shadow caused by the peninsula that sticks out at the
> > windward corner of the Coyote cove area.
>
> Someone (COTW?) put a station on the Hertz car lot on that point,
> which is pretty well out of any wind shadows, but is still not reliably
> beyond the wind line. The wind line is caused by the shape of the
> San Bruno gap, not by buildings.
Understood, and good point.
> > I suppose if someone really wants to make a science out of this you would
> > need to do some experimenting and try to calibrate readings at different
> > sites with the wind reported by the airport and NWS. Personally I wouldn't
> > mind helping out on that experiment if someone knows where we could get the
> > equipment on rental to record data for a few days.
>
> You need data for months, preferrably years to make a meaningful
> correlation. In any event, MicroForecasts would be the ones to have the
> equipment.
Of course I'll take even one limited experiment over just a theory. :)
> > > I think we need to work out a remote sensor.
> >
> > Why even hassle with the bother of setting up your own?
>
> You misunderstand me. I want to solve the problem so *they* can run it.
> They don't have a solution, but at least they are in the business of
> running such equipment.
Ah, okay. I'm with you now. So how do we test out whether we could get a
sensor on the channel marker near the harbor master's office?
> I do hope that if we can figure this out that we can get them to set up
> a network-accessable arrangement. Dialing in is a big pain in the ass
> compared to automagic network retrieval.
The problem is that these people don't understand Internet quite yet. I
wish I could explain to them how it would increase the value of their
service, while lowering the cost for both them and for the consumer. And
another problem is that they don't really have the budget for a custom
software development project of this type. It's easy to make the data
freely available. It's much harder to write nice GUI software, and to
address security issues so that the user's userid and password are not
exposed, and to write a server that can meter and charge for the downloading
of data.
> > > > P.S. Micro Forecasts has offered to install a sensor at San Luis if the
> > > > users can help raise half the cost ($500 of $1000).
>
> Why would this be better than the existing one?
Again, the issue the number of data points they are giving you. It's hard
to explain until you have seen their Windgraf software, but it gives you
a linear graphs of the wind's progression minute-by-minute for the last few
hours, and it just gives you an immediate grasp of wind quality that I
don't think you get from a windtalker. On a nuclear day, you don't need
their software: you hear the first number on the windtalker and you're out
the door in 30 seconds. On a marginal day, it means the difference between a
wasted three hour round-trip to San Luis and a great day of sailing.
-- Thanks, Will Estes Internet: westes@usc.com-DeleteThis U.S. Computer Saratoga, CA 95070
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